Ep #37: The Mindset of a Woman with Muscle

You are listening to the Strong as a Working Mom podcast, Episode # 37. Want to know how women with muscle eat, move, and think? Check this out.

Welcome to the Strong as a Working Mom podcast. If you’re balancing career, family, wellness, and some days sanity, you are in the right place. This is where high-achieving, busy, working moms get the tools they need to eat, move, and think. I’m your host, physician, personal trainer, and Certified Life Coach, Carrie Holland. Let’s do this.

Hey, how are you? What’s new, what’s good? So, what’s good here, we are going to get into the details and talk about what it means to build and have muscle. I’m pretty pumped to talk about this today. And here’s why I want to talk about this. So many of you have either sent messages or asked questions or have reached out in some way, to ask about how to get muscle. And, I really appreciate it.

I’ve created a few podcasts now, on the benefits of strength training and how exactly you build muscle by aiming for progressive overload. And I’ve gotten into a lot of the science and the literature and the biology to give it to you straight from a somewhat academic perspective.

Alright, so today, I’m pivoting. I’m going to give you an idea of what the mindset of a woman with muscle looks like. Here it is, this is just one more place where eating, moving, and thinking all combine to get you strong as hell. I want you to walk away from this episode understanding what it takes mentally and physically to build muscle.

Because here’s the thing, I’ve told you repeatedly about why having muscle is so great for your body, right? Especially, as we get older. But I want to move way past that and get into the mindset you need in order to have and keep that muscle.

Some of this is going to come from my own personal perspective. I have been asked a few times now, what my routine is. Not just my workout routine, but my general approach to wellness. I’m going to weave bits of my own approach in here. But know this, this is what has worked for me. And what I have taken away, after coaching hundreds of clients over the last few years, to get really strong. The women who have built muscle and made serious changes in their lives to do it, they have some things in common. And, that’s where all of this is coming from.

Alright, so let’s go. First and foremost, women with muscle lift heavy weight. There is a different type of intensity to their lifting than someone who occasionally does a 10-minute arms workout on her Peloton, okay? And while I’m on the subject of Peloton, for any of you who ride and want arms like Tunde, or a body like Robin Arzón, pay attention.

I have caught both of them, and many of the other female instructors mention it on more than one occasion; they go to the gym. They lift heavy weights. And I will hazard a guess that Tunde does not get her shoulder cap and biceps simply by doing a 10-minute workout on the Peloton app.

This is not at all to poopoo or discount your 10-minute arms on the bike, or your body pump class. Okay? That is not my point, at all. Please understand that from the outset. But my point is this, in whatever setting you choose to lift, if you want legit, serious, defined muscle, it’s going to come by going heavy.

You have to challenge your muscles and feel a little burn. I have said it before, but if you can talk or sing through your reps, that’s probably not going to cut it, and it’s probably not going to be heavy enough to result in building muscle. I challenge you to go to the next weight up and see what you can do.

I’ve said this before, even if you don’t do all of your sets, or all of your reps, with the next higher weight, that’s okay. How are you going to know if you can lift the heavier weight? By trying the heavier weight. And of course, you do it safely, with a spotter, so you don’t injure yourself.

But my point is, if you want to take it to the next level, you pick up the heavier dumbbells and you see what you’re capable of. A woman with muscle is not afraid to grab a heavy dumbbell and see what she can do with it.

I’ve talked about progressive overload numerous times, because this is what you need in order to build muscle, no matter what your gender. In order to build muscle, you have to apply an increased stress to that muscle, over time.

While you can most definitely increase the number of sets, or the number of reps, of an exercise in order to get to progressive overload and build muscle, the most fun way to do it is by bumping up your weight.

That means it’s going to get a little challenging. It might burn a little or even a lot. You might be sore the next day or even the day after that. And, that’s okay. I’m not telling you that you should always be sore. But there may be days when you go hard and you feel it the next day. At a healthy level, this tells you, “Heck yeah, I did something.”

So please, if you’ve been hanging on to the same 10-pound dumbbells for who knows how long, I challenge you to pick up the 12 1/2 pounders and see what you can do. You are going to surprise yourself; I know it.

Another key thing to note is that a woman with muscle knows and understands that she is not going to look like a bodybuilder. And, she is not going to get all big and bulky when she challenges herself to go heavy. I cannot tell you how many times I’ve heard this, and I just want to put it to rest here and now. I promise you, you are not going to look like a bodybuilder if you pick up heavy weights. Okay?

I’m going to use myself here as an example, for just a minute. In 2017, I got into bodybuilding. I worked with a coach and I trained for my first bodybuilding show ever, in 2018, just before I turned 40. Call it a bucket list thing, call it a midlife crisis, call it whatever you want, I just did it.

I learned the most about weight training and nutrition during my time bodybuilding than I did from any book or test or certification I’ve ever taken. So, let me be clear about just a few things. For those of you not into bodybuilding, or if you have ideas about it but don’t know the details, let me fill you in.

I’m specifically speaking to women’s bodybuilding; you can choose to be natural or not. By natural, that means you’re not taking any steroids or testosterone. You’re not taking any illegal substances to build muscle. Natural means you use weights and you use food in order to build your muscle. That’s what I did. I wasn’t interested in taking substances or hormones or extra testosterone, that was just not for me.

And then, within women’s bodybuilding, there are a number of different divisions including fitness, bikini, figure, wellness, physique, and then traditional bodybuilding. So, each of these has their own specifications, and gets progressively more muscular and “bulky” as you go up from bikini competitors to bodybuilding.

For me, I was a figure competitor. I have short stubby legs and am wide across my shoulders. So, that’s where it made the most sense for me to compete. I share all of this to say, when I was training for bodybuilding shows, I lifted more intensely than I’ve ever lifted in my life.

I also ate more protein in the form of chicken, fish, steak, and eggs than I ever have in my life. I followed a very specific nutrition regimen that helped me to put on muscle. And while it was during this period that I was the most muscular I’ve ever been, I don’t know that I ever got bulky, because you have to work your tail off in order to get bulky. Okay? It does not happen overnight. And, it certainly does not happen by accident.

Any woman who has put on serious muscle knows that it took months, or in my case years, to get that way. You are not going to get bulky by doing biceps curls with 20-pound dumbbells instead of the fifteens. You’re not going to get bulky by getting under a squat bar and sticking a 45-pound plate on either side. I promise you that.

What will happen is you will get strong as hell and you will put on muscle. That’s what will happen. When you lift heavy weight, you are building a solid, strong, lean, muscular base layer, and you’re not going to get big or bulky. This is about changing your body composition; you are literally changing what you’re made of.

Lifting heavy weights will literally change what you’re made of. It will increase your fat-free mass, or your muscle mass, and that is a good thing. But that change in body composition is not going to happen by a two-day per week casual lifting regimen for general health. I’m talking about four to five days where you go and you go hard, and in a safe way, of course.

If you are new to heavy lifting, please do yourself a favor and work with a trainer who can watch you perform the moves and ensure that you’re doing them properly, so you don’t hurt yourself. Okay?

To summarize, women with muscle know that in order to have muscle, they go hard. They are not afraid to lift heavy weights, and they know they aren’t going to get bulky. Instead, they are going to look strong and feel like a badass. Alright? Awesome.

Okay, so next, related to but separate from lifting heavy is this, women with muscle have a routine. When she goes to the gym, or she goes to pick up the weights, she’s got a plan and she sticks to it. Even if it feels boring and repetitive. She knows that it works and she keeps at it, week in and week out.

Alright, so here again, I’m going to use myself in his example. I’m sharing this because, one I’ve been asked a few times what my strength training routine is. And two, I have a routine and I stick with it and it works.

Okay, so this is my strength training routine currently: Monday is light day; there are always barbell squats of some variety, some sort of deadlift or hip thrust, lunges, and then I get to the accessory exercises.

Tuesdays are chest and shoulders; I generally would start with some sort of bench-press or dumbbell chest press, either flat or on an incline. And then, I do other flat or incline pressing exercises to complement it. I also do some dedicated shoulder exercises then, because one of my goals was to build rounded shoulders.

Plus, many chest exercises. Especially if you put yourself on an incline, it will incorporate your shoulders. So, working those two muscle groups, chest and shoulders, on the same day goes really well together. Wednesdays; I do biceps, triceps and abs. That’s a lighter day. Those are smaller muscle groups, and it’s not as taxing. But you can bet $1, I still go heavy.

Fridays are back day. I always will start with pull ups. And then I move to lat pull downs, rows. And again, some other accessory exercises. Saturdays are for shoulders. It is my standing date with my husband. And it is the one day, where if there isn’t a swim meet, a basketball game, lacrosse match, or football game, we can take our time. And truthfully, we make most of our life decisions in our gym.

So, I share this, but I want to make it clear, this is not at all how you have to lift weights in order to build muscle. What I just listed out, and the way that I lift for myself, is called a body part split. That is a remnant of my bodybuilding days. And I really loved that style of lifting, so I stuck with it. I’ve said it before, I’ll say it again, lifting weights is my favorite. Of all the types of exercise I can do, hand me some heavy iron and a barbell any day. I will take it over running, swimming, cycling, you name it; just me in the weights.

But I recognize that not everyone wants to lift that way, and you do not have to lift that way in order to build muscle. But you do need a routine. For most people, you can do an alternating upper body-lower body pattern three to four days a week. You can get results with lifting two days per week, but in my experience as a trainer, your results will not be as robust as if you trained four days per week.

And again, this comes down to math and progressive overload. But hear me loud and clear, as long as you go hard, even if you lift two days per week, you will see results.

But in addition to going hard, you need a routine. And this is why I don’t love random Instagram influencer workouts. This is not to say don’t ever do them. But here’s my suggestion, if you find a workout on Instagram that you really love, save it, and then repeat it once a week. Okay?

The reason I say once per week, is that in the sports medicine literature, it suggests that in order to maintain the muscle gains that you are making, you lift each muscle group at least once per week.

I use this example commonly. So, imagine when you get your first pull up. If you want to keep being able to do pull ups, you should practice them once per week to hang on to it, and not lose your ability to do pull ups. Okay?

All of this is to say, have a routine. Have a program. If you want to build muscle, have a plan, and then stick to it. So again, using myself here as an example, I just shared with you my routine. When I get my workout started, all I have to do is show up, remind myself what day it is, and then I get to it. And, I want the same for you.

For you runners out there, you know what it’s like when you’re training for a race, right? Some days are speed days, some days are longer runs, some are race pace, right? You have a schedule and you stick to it. Building muscle works the same way.

Often, when you have a dedicated strength training plan, I suggest sticking with it from six to eight weeks. So, that means you do the same four workouts per week, for six to eight weeks. And, there’s no hard and fast rule on this. Some of the programs that I had I did for much longer. There is no one right answer here.

What is the benefit of sticking to the same program for six to eight weeks? There are a couple of things. It allows you to get really comfortable with the moves. Often, when you’re just starting out a new strength training program, there’s a learning curve.

It takes a few tries to figure out your rhythm, your starting weight. And if it’s a new move for you, it might take you some time to learn how to put your body through that range of motion. And, that all takes time. But then, once you’ve got the moves down and you feel good about your ability to perform the moves, then you can really zone in on what you’re doing and aim for progressive overload.

You can try to progress your weight or add a few more reps or one more set, and any of these things take time. That’s why program hopping is one of the worst things you can do. Meaning, you do a random Instagram influencer workout one day, then you do a Peloton arms and light weight workout the next day. And then, the next day you do a boatload of squats and you get crazy sore, only to not squat again for another two weeks.

There’s no routine here and that’s not going to get you anywhere. So, here is what I want to offer you. The most effective workout programs might, at first glance, seem basic and boring and repetitive. But those are the programs that are going to get you results.

I mentioned it before, but this is falling in love with the grind. There is nothing inherently sexy about slogging yourself to the gym every Monday to sweat under the squat bar. There’s nothing really cute about turning red and making a scary gym face while trying to hoist dumbbells over your head to do a shoulder press and go for a PR (Personal Record).

I accept that and I go do it anyway; this is not fancy. In fact, let me make another point about your routine. Women who have muscle know that they do not need a fancy, wild routine in order to get results. You do not need to do crazy moves that require loads of equipment. You do not have to do moves that are wild or contorted. In fact, I don’t recommend doing those things unless you’re really solid in your lifting, because that’s a great way to set yourself up for injury. Okay?

Instead, stick with the basics. Stick with the classics. Squats are a classic staple for a reason. Push-ups? They are a staple because they are simple, they are effective, and they work. Do not think that you have to perform a contortionist act, with multiple bands and your heels elevated on weight plates or balancing on your big toe, in order to see a result. Seriously.

I look at some of the workouts on Instagram, and I think, “I would hurt myself if I tried some of these moves.” Do not make it complicated. If you’ve seen my YouTube workouts, you know these are not fancy. My moves are not fancy. I look like I’m working and I am; that’s it.

Okay, to summarize, women with muscle have a routine and they stick with it. It is repetitive. It’s simple, and it works. Alright?

So next, let’s talk about cardio. I want to hit this one face-on because I get asked about it commonly. Where does cardio fit into your routine? I’ve mentioned standard guidelines for American adults in the past. The CDC guideline for physical activity is 150 minutes of moderate intensity physical activity per week. Or, 75 minutes of vigorous physical activity per week. Plus, two days of muscle strengthening activity per week; hitting all the major muscle groups. That’s what the CDC says.

But what I want to offer is that your strength training, if you go hard, can contribute to your accumulation of those 150 active minutes. Okay? If you are sweating, and your heart rate goes up while you’re lifting weights, that counts.

Again, if you’ve looked at the CDC page, it will show you that moderate intensity activity can be something as simple as brisk walking. If you get your heart rate up in the same way through strength training as you do by brisk walking, then I think that most definitely counts.

Here’s what I want to offer you in terms of cardio. Women who have muscle don’t overdo it on their cardio. They often prioritize strength training before cardio. And if you just gasp, because you’re thinking there’s no way you could ever do that. I totally hear you. I see you.

When I was in college, and in medical school, I was of the stance that if it wasn’t at least a 30-minute run, then it did not count. And, there was no way I could even consider a strength training workout as enough. I had to be drenched in sweat and have gotten in at least three to four miles, in order for my workout to count.

Some of you have told me that you’re still in this place, that you feel it has to be a cardio sweaty session in order for it to count. Or, that you’re just not getting the same rush from strength training as you are from your cardio. So, please hear me now. Women with serious, legit muscle know that their strength training workout most definitely counts; for real, it counts.

And do you want to know why it counts? Because she went hard. She got sweaty, her face turned red, and she lifted some heavy weight. She felt the burn and kept pushing. And strength training most definitely can give you the same feel-good endorphins that you would get from running.

This is not to say that you need to forego cardio altogether. I don’t want you to do that. But I want you to walk or jog or swim or do whatever cardiovascular exercise you prefer. But I want you to get your strength training in too, if you’re going to build muscle.

So, here’s what to know: If your priority is to build muscle, do your strength training workouts first, before you do your cardiovascular exercise. Here’s why, I’ve already mentioned it. But when you’re looking to build muscle, you want to go hard. You want to start your workout fresh so you’ve got energy to get you through the challenges of putting up heavier weight.

If you want to build muscle, do that first, and then do your cardio. Because if you just killed yourself in a 30-minute Hiit workout and then you’re going to try and hit the weights, you’re likely not going to have the same stamina and energy as you would if you did your strength training first.

To be fair, the literature on this is mixed. And we still don’t know with absolute certainty, if and how cardio impacts muscle building. Some studies suggest that cardio and strength training done in the same session, impedes muscle growth. And some studies suggest there’s no difference. But this was just in relation to doing both strength and cardio on the same day. There was no literature I could find, about the order in which they’re done.

But what I do know, is that if you are totally gassed from a Hiit workout, you’re not going to be able to lift weights with the same intensity that you would if you did it after your strength training session. Women who have muscle know this. They prioritize strength training and they don’t get overly concerned with decreasing their cardio workouts.

So, science aside, what I will commonly see is this. I’ll see a woman who believes it’s either cardio or nothing, and will do a boatload of running and throw in a few minutes of weights afterward, and she’ll wonder why she’s not building muscle.

She’ll have strong legs from all the running, but she may not have the upper body strength or muscle definition she wants. And it’s because she’s too busy prioritizing cardio and her runs over hitting the weights. If this is you, I hear you, I see you. And I want to reassure you that if you were to give up, or even shorten, one or more of your cardio sessions for a true, serious, directed strength training program, you can start to get the arms you want, okay?

And runners need to lift their legs, too. Don’t get trapped into thinking that because you run, you don’t need to lift your legs. I held on to that for years. And I am so glad that I looked into the science and found that strength training will make you a faster, more endurant, and less injury prone runner. Okay?

Again, to summarize, women with muscle know that cardio is important, but they generally prioritize their strength training. And they know that cardio in the form of running, Hiit, etc., is not the be-all end-all.

Next, let’s talk about food. Let me make something clear. Women who have muscle know it’s important to eat. You have to eat in order to fuel your body, so that it can build and repair your muscles. And when I say eat, I don’t mean a bunch of junk food. I mean whole food, lean protein, fruits and vegetables, and yes, even carbs.

Here’s something important to know, muscle growth happens when the rate of muscle protein synthesis exceeds the rate of muscle protein breakdown. So, plain English, you have to build muscle faster than you break it down, if you want to have and keep muscle.

What do you think tips the balance in favor of muscle protein synthesis? Protein, yes! I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again here, whether your goal is to lose weight, put on muscle, or both, protein in your diet is essential.

As for how much, again, that’s subject to wide debate. But I generally aim for a goal of one gram of protein per pound, for myself personally. But for most people, especially for those who are not currently eating a lot of protein, I will do the math and figure out a range of 20 to 30% of your daily calories from protein, and aim to increase from there over time.

I recognize that this is more than the RDA recommendation of .36 grams of protein per pound. But again, I bring this up repeatedly, because more and more science is suggesting that in order to build muscle and in order to hang on to muscle as we age, eating solely the RDA standard for protein intake is not going to cut it.

Women who have muscle, we know that. We are not afraid to eat, because we know we have to eat if we want to build and fuel our muscles properly. Women with muscle are also not afraid to eat carbs, unless you follow a Keto diet. I’m not saying that people on a Keto diet are afraid of carbs. Okay?

Let me explain this. A woman who wants muscle and is not on a Keto diet, will not shy away from eating whole grain, largely unprocessed carbs, like quinoa, brown rice, sweet potatoes, Ezekiel bread, oatmeal. That’s what I’m talking about.

Carbs like these have an important role in building muscle by stimulating insulin, which is an anabolic hormone. Insulin is an important hormone that helps you build muscle. This is very different than eating pop tarts and pastries as a source of carbs. Okay? Women with muscle eat whole, unprocessed carbs.

Back to Keto for just a second. Let me be clear, you absolutely can build muscle while following a Keto diet. This is not to look down on Keto, at all. There are definitely nuances to this, and there’s a question about the Keto diet and carb timing in relation to strength training.

There’s some literature that suggests that people who follow a Keto diet may benefit from timing the little carbs they do eat, to fall shortly after their strength training to drive insulin. There’s also quite a bit of debate in the literature about the role of Keto and muscle hypertrophy versus muscle maintenance, and it’s confusing.

So, hypertrophy simply means muscle growth. While maintenance means you’re not making new muscle but simply holding on to what you have. And it is still not a slam dunk that Keto is equal to a non-Keto diet, in terms of muscle hypertrophy. We need more science on this. But suffice it to say, whether a woman follows a Keto diet or not, she is not afraid to eat, because she knows she needs adequate nutrition to maintain her muscle.

Here is something crucial I want to point out, for women who are already at a healthy weight, meaning you’re not looking to lose weight. If you want to put on muscle, you may have to eat in a slight calorie surplus. I want to be very clear on this because so many of you have totally freaked out on me, when you come to me and you tell me you’re thin, but you don’t want to be skinny-fat and you want to put on muscle.

And the minute I suggest you may need to eat in a slight calorie surplus, you get nervous. So, I understand how this can make you nervous, but let me make it very clear. When I’m talking about a slight surplus, I’m talking 250 to 450 extra calories a day. And those extra calories, they are not coming from Cheetos and Ben & Jerry’s, alright? These calories are coming from real, whole foods, increased protein, and whole carbs.

And, this is not for forever. This is for a few weeks or months, depending on your goals. Eating in a slight surplus in a thoughtful, mindful way, while you are lifting heavy, will help you put on muscle if you are already at a healthy weight.

You can certainly do this without going into a surplus, but it may take you longer. That’s called recomposition, and it is absolutely possible. But it does not happen haphazardly, and will most likely require you to increase your protein intake, while you keep your calories at maintenance level. So, as you can see, there are loads of ways to go about this.

But to summarize, women who have muscle are not afraid to eat. In fact, women who have muscle understand the importance of proper nutrition to sustain the muscle they are working so hard for in the first place. All right?

So, last but certainly not least, women who have muscle take the scale with a grain of salt. She does not get bent out of shape by the number on the scale when she has got visible quads, a shoulder cap, and real, legit triceps, as an example.

Women with muscle understand that muscle weighs more than fat. And we are not afraid of what a scale number means. For me, personally, I do not freak out about the scale. I know that I am never going to be a twig. I am not going to be tiny. And, I don’t want to be. I don’t want to be skinny; I want to be jacked.

I hope the same is true for you. And along your journey, to jacked and strong, I want you to see that while the scale is helpful, it does not tell the whole story. There have been points in my life where my weight put me in the overweight category, by my BMI. But I was at my most muscular ever. So, do I really care what my weight is or what my BMI is, when I know that I can do more pull ups than most women my age, and squat twice my bodyweight? No.

This is not to say I don’t weigh myself; I do weigh myself every day. I use it as data; you do not have to do that. Wherever you are in your health and fitness journey, whether you have muscle or not, do not let this scale determine your mood, your outlook, or your self-worth, okay? Again, this is a piece of data. But women who have muscle know that it is one small piece of data in a complex physiological puzzle.

The same is true for clothing. Women with muscle know that clothing is going to fit a little differently once she’s got muscle. Again, using myself as an example, there are certain shirts that basically make my arms look like sausage links, because the sleeves are so ridiculously tight, that they just do not work, like, at all.

So, I may have to buy one size up, because my arms legitimately do not fit into the shirt, and I’m okay with that. My back, it does not fit into certain dresses anymore. My back got a little wider once I started lifting heavier. And that meant that some of the dresses I had don’t fit the way they used to.

And, you know what? I am okay with that. Because now I know to buy clothes that highlight the arms that I’ve worked so hard for, instead of squeezing them like encased sausage. Women with muscle know that clothing will fit differently. And they’re okay with that because, instead, they buy clothes that highlight and flatter their muscles. And, they wear those sleeveless dresses, probably.

To summarize, women with muscle don’t give their power to the scale. They know that the size of their clothing does not tell the whole story.

Alright. So, there it is. I wanted to share with you my approach to having muscle, and combine it with the experience I’ve had coaching women to get ridiculously strong. To review, this is how women with muscle operate.

They lift heavy weights regularly. They follow a structured workout routine. They don’t over-emphasize cardio. They eat to fuel their muscles. They most definitely do not let the scale have power over them. And, they recognize that clothing may fit a little differently, and they own it. That last one, is key.

I know I just spent the last 30-ish minutes talking about eating and moving. But you know me and you know where I’m headed. None of the heavy lifting or progressive overload plans or protein, none of that matters, if you are not coming at it with a clean, managed mind.

I say all the time, I will say it again here, you cannot beat yourself up into your next best version. If you decide that building muscle is a priority for you, I want your mind to match the work you’re doing.

To quote Tunde, just one more time because she says it so well, “Your mind is your strongest muscle. To be a strong woman, whether you are a working mom or not, you have to take care of your body, sure. But you have to take care of your mind, too. It all goes together.”

So, if you want help with this, let’s talk. I’m super pumped to announce I’m opening up my one-to-one coaching program for new clients. If you’ve never worked with a life coach and you’re curious to know what it’s about, let’s talk. Check out my website. Go to CarrieHollandMD.com/contact and let’s get going.

When you coach me one-on-one, we design a plan specific to you, that will get you eating, moving, and thinking in a way that gets you strong, sure physically, but also mentally. Because you deserve to have both, no matter how busy you are. And, I will help you do it. Alright?

Thank you again for hanging out with me, and I will catch you again next week.

If you like what you’ve been hearing, please review the show. I would love to get your feedback and ideas. Your suggestions have inspired episodes and will help me make the show better for you. And share this podcast with a friend, text a show link, share a screenshot, or post a link to the show on your social media. Be sure to tag me @CarrieHollandMD on either Instagram or Facebook, so I can follow along and engage with you.

This is how we get the word out to other working moms who want to feel strong, inside and out. If you know someone who wants to feel better or eat and move differently but she is too tired or too busy, it is time to change things up. And you know, making that change starts with how you think. And that is what we do here on the Strong as a Working Mom podcast. I’ll see you next week.

Thanks for listening to Strong as a Working Mom. If you want more information on how to eat, move, and think, so you can live in the body you want, with the mind to match, visit me at CarrieHollandMD.com.